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 Post subject: Re: Dry clutch for h1?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:16 pm 
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Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico
H2RTuner wrote:
You do just that, they'll be happy to be corrected for using inferior dry clutches for their ultra performance race bikes, instead of the "superior" wet clutches. Maybe worth the effort to go tell the car and truck guys, and everyone else in the universe that their dry clutches are just plain wrong, junk, trash, don't work.

I'm happy, and overjoyed we have that kind of knowledge here, over decades of hands on experience.


Gheesh Dave, stay on point. We are talking a street 500, nothing else here. And again, I NEVER said dry clutches were wrong, junk, trash, don't work, or not used on ultra performance race bikes.

Pay attention to Oxfords posts. He thinks it's cool, and wants to do it, IF it's not excessively expensive. After all these years, of guys saying a longer shaft needs to be made, it finally comes out that there is a way around it. And now there are covers being made. So it is actually feasible now without being super difficult or expensive.

And we nailed down Oxfords reason for wanting to do it, Something cool to do.

So the "merits" are not a factor, in Oxfords case, the stock clutch, set up correctly is more than up to the job. So it really comes down to how much time and money the conversion will cost.

As for "hands on" experience, I had lunch with Hurley today, and we discussed clutches, He said he could never get his H1R clutch to not drag. And that's coming from a guy that actually raced with dry clutches................

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 Post subject: Re: Dry clutch for h1?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:57 pm 

Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:25 am
Posts: 3163
I worked with them too, still do, and never had a problem with any of them.

Only problem I ever heard HTW had with a dry clutch was on his TZ750, when he used the street bike plates for the first time, the stack was too thin, and he had to add a second friction plate to the stack to get it back to the TZ plate thickness. Once he did that, I don't remember he having any clutch slip problems simply because it was a dry clutch.

200 horsepower proddy bikes should be OK with wet clutches, but for racing, serious stuff, over 200 horsepower, dry clutch all the way.

I think if oxsford wants to build one, he should take a close look at the work, materials, machining, and cost, and go forward, if he so desires, and not listen to those pushing him to do so, nor those going break neck in the opposite direction, NOT to build one. If he wants to do one, and asks me, I'll help with his project, but, that is HIS decision, not mine, nor John's.

And, John, do not ever accuse me of not working on those bikes, nor not working on, and racing those engines with dry clutches, and not only Kawasaki's. I figure I was was doing it long before you ever saw a Kawasaki H series racer dry clutch.

I did dry clutch on H series, all sorts of Yamaha for a bunch of riders, Aprilia and Yamaha on Salaverria's bikes, Honda racers, lots of those for all kinds of FIM, AMA, AFM, WERA, WMSC riders/racers, and never had one go away from it being a dry clutch over a wet one. Both rthe Yamaha's and the Aprilia racers Salaverria had came with just one set of friction plates spare, and, I don't remember ever changing to one, or a set of the spares, they were still new in the spares kits when Al sold the bikes after racing them. Al almost won the AMA 250 title in 1990, same clutch all year, never slipped. When I bought the 4 TZ250's we raced when I had the shop in Merced, AFM team, there were a bunch of used friction plates in the boxes of spares. All I did was pick the best ones, and put 'em, adjusted them right, and educated my 4 riders, and a lot of other riders to not abuse the clutches, never had a problem. That year, Rod Smith, on my 1984 TZ, won the AFM 250 championship, same clutch all year, as did the top 15 in the series, all with my same advice, adjustments and their same clutch parts all year long.

So according to John, I don't have anywhere the experience he does with dry clutches, nor wet ones for that matter. Too bad his ego keeps getting in the way of the truth about others he constantly disagrees with, and what they have experienced, done in both racing, and street bikes. Seems to carry over from cut away pistons, to clutches. No biggie, I got better things to do than sit here and constantly read what an idiot I am.

Later, and, DON'T RIDE THAT CLUTCH, WET OR DRY, THEY DON'T LIKE IT MUCH.


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 Post subject: Re: Dry clutch for h1?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:58 am 
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Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico
H2RTuner wrote:

So according to John, I don't have anywhere the experience he does with dry clutches, nor wet ones for that matter. Too bad his ego keeps getting in the way of the truth about others he constantly disagrees with, and what they have experienced, done in both racing, and street bikes. Seems to carry over from cut away pistons, to clutches. No biggie, I got better things to do than sit here and constantly read what an idiot I am.

Later, and, DON'T RIDE THAT CLUTCH, WET OR DRY, THEY DON'T LIKE IT MUCH.


I don't have the time either Dave, again, I said NOTHING about your experience, stop trying to put words in my posts. If I didn't think you knew crap about something, I would say, "you don't know crap about something", it's that simple. And quit going off on tangents trying to prove your point, I'm not disagreeing with you. We are talking around or so 50 hp on a streetbike here, not race bikes. Ego has nothing to do with the fact that a wet clutch in THIS context works just fine.

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Twist the throttle, tilt the horizon, and have a great time. What triples are all about...........


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 Post subject: Re: Dry clutch for h1?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:37 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 7:03 am
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Location: Milang, South Australia
I just love these threads, I think the Mods. should be able to charge some kind of admission fee..........!! :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Dry clutch for h1?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:32 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 12:52 am
Posts: 360
Location: London, UK
Jeez :roll: John, I'm wondering, were you a pita at school even - disagreeing with the teachers and wanting the last word all the time. Maybe you could loosen up a little, and perhaps just let some things go. My gut instinct analyis of the total number of arguments on the triple boards I visit, and the number you are involved in is of an unhealthy proportion. This is a hobby for virtually all of us and I'd like to think we all want to rub along in a friendly way. That arguing rubbish is what goes on in the corporate life and the one major stress thing I really don't miss since I left it a couple of years ago. You are lucky enough not to have suffered that corporate thing from what I gather, and please don't think you missed anything with the conflict endemic there. We don't really need it here. Please. :thumbup:


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 Post subject: Re: Dry clutch for h1?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:36 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 7:03 am
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Location: Milang, South Australia
And there I was thinking it took two to tango............! :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Dry clutch for h1?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:07 am 
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Location: London, UK
...indeed it does Rod, though any one dancer can have a whole variety of partners.


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 Post subject: Re: Dry clutch for h1?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:09 am 
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I don't think we are talking about the same partner!

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 Post subject: Re: Dry clutch for h1?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:29 pm 

Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:25 am
Posts: 3163
"I would say, "you don't know crap about something", it's that simple". You just did.


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 Post subject: Re: Dry clutch for h1?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:24 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 5:06 pm
Posts: 233
Location: joliet IL
there is book smart and there is real world hands on smart, take you choice who side to believe. But then again what do i know, i cant even get my bike to work due to design faults


what erks me the most is not some one critasizing but other people believing it.

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