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PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 7:17 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2012 10:26 pm
Posts: 41
Location: Cambridge, New Zealand
SKF Energy Efficient Bearings
Has any one used or know of these bearings. Wanting to use them for my Crankshaft and engine rebuild :?: :?: . They claim to be up to 30% longer life and was told by the local SKF agent that they are the in thing for the go-carts and many are used now on racing bikes, obviously without the shield for the H1.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 3:55 am 

Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:32 am
Posts: 600
Location: Jarrettsville, MD
I have not heard of these. I personally like the Koyo brand as they are a bit beefier and heavier than the SKFs. If you want the ultimate, go with ceramic bearings ($600+!) :o . If you go with the energy efficient SKFs, just be sure they are a C3 bearing for the crankshaft.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 12:50 pm 

Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:25 am
Posts: 3156
C3 is a bearing clearance rating, and is the same as EMG (electric motor grade). If a "tighter" bearing is used in uor cranks, they WILL create binding of the crankshaft.

The best bearings will NOT have a steel ball guide, but will use a sort of teflon based, removable guide.

Also, with any composite bearing ball guide, ask the manufacturer if the guide material is compatible with fuels and oils, as some can degrade when exposed to those adverse chemicals.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 6:51 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2011 3:22 pm
Posts: 326
Location: Holmestrand, NORWAY
In the period 1996 to 2011 I have had five bearing cage failures on my own H1 cranks and I have seen at least another three cage failures on core cranks I have bough for rebuilding. When the last failure occurred late summer 2011 I really felt I had enough of this. I contacted Chris Ritchie and asked him if he was willing to rebuild a crank for me where I supplied the bearings. I told him what I had in mind and that it was to be an experiment. He was genuinely interested and accepted the job.

Next I contacted a local bearing supplier and ordered the following SKF bearings:
3 ea. 6205 ETN9/C4
3 ea. 6305 TN9/C4
1 ea. 6305 N/C4

The TN9 designation means the bearing has a glass fiber reinforced Polyamide (PA66) cage.
I could not find a 6305 bearing with both TN9 cage and a snap ring groove, and I didn't want to use one steel caged bearing, so I came up with the following;
I removed the plastic cage from one of the 6305 TN9 bearings, then put aside the cage and tossed the rest. Then I drilled out the cage rivets in the 6305 N bearing and carefully removed the steel cage, took the bearing apart and cleaned the parts thoroughly before putting it back together with the plastic cage.

Now, why TN9 and why C4 clearance?
This choice was based on some research I did on more or less modern 2-strokes (at least when compared to the triples). I noticed that most of these (KTM, Cagiva, etc...) used plastic caged bearings with C4 clearance (often SKF) and I also learned that the 6205 ETN9/C4 was one of the most commonly used crankshaft bearings in go-karting.

I then sent a good core crank and the bearings to Chris, and I remember telling him to locate the bearings with the open side of the cage away from the crank webs (it just felt like the right orientation). A couple of weeks later the rebuilt crank returned with a note from Chris saying that he was very happy with the result.

It's now been 2 1/2 years and approximately 12000 miles. I have deliberately given it a hard time with 10 000+ RPM several times daily (it's a wonder I still have my license). All my dyno runs have been close to 11 000 RPM. Peek HP is just shy of 70 RWHP from 8500 to 9000 RPM and from there it falls off to 60 RWHP at close to 11 000 RPM. The crank is still holding so I think I'm on to something here.

You may have noticed that the small bearings (6205) were ETN9 and big ones were TN9, and about a year ago I learned the difference. The designation E has the following meaning (quoted from SKF site):

Deviating or modified internal design with same boundary dimensions; as a rule the significance of the letter is bound to the particular bearing series; usually indicates reinforced rolling element complement.

Now this was a lucky coincident as it turns out that these bearings are significantly stronger than standard 6205 bearings. I have always felt that Kawasaki made a poor decision when they stepped down the bearing size on the H1 crank. I believe the 6205 is a bit on the weak side and that it would have been better with 6305 for all six bearings.

Here is a data table from the SKF site:

Image

As you can see the ETN9 bearings have significantly higher Basic load ratings than a standard bearing.

Anyway, I just though I'd share.


PK


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 7:02 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2011 6:37 am
Posts: 10460
Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico
P.K. wrote:
I have always felt that Kawasaki made a poor decision when they stepped down the bearing size on the H1 crank. I believe the 6205 is a bit on the weak side and that it would have been better with 6305 for all six bearings.



PK

they were 6 YEN cheaper......... :lol: :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 8:38 pm 

Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:25 am
Posts: 3156
Hurley and I used to remove the steel guides, and install teflon ones from other manufacturers, no failures after we did that. Just way too many steel cages broke.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 9:17 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2012 10:26 pm
Posts: 41
Location: Cambridge, New Zealand
"SKF Energy Efficient (E2) deep groove ball bearings are fitted with a ball centred snap-type cage made of a temperature-resistant glass fibre reinforced composite polymer" SKF web site. They were primarily designed for a high revving, high loads, electric motors
Image
Thanks for all the info, there's so much info on bearings on the net one gets quite perplexed. Interesting on the C4 clearances, kinda makes sense, thinking I'll stick to C3 as I don't plan to rev the shitters out off my H1, long trips yes but no track stuff. (have a KTM Superduke for that ;) ) Asked the agent about the cage running in a two stroke with a petrol/oil mix scenario and he was quite adamant that it will be perfectly ok. Still, a bit of a unknown for a H1 tho. :? . Also can not get the 6305 with the groove in Energy Efficient (E2) so that will have to be a standard ZNR/c3.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 6:50 am 
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Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 10:04 pm
Posts: 2223
Location: Just north of Toronto, Ontario
Another excellent post PK! :clap:
I'll be following your lead on my nice crank rebuild! (Hopefully not to soon!) :lol:

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 8:24 am 

Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:26 am
Posts: 797
Walms wrote:
Another excellent post PK! :clap:
I'll be following your lead on my nice crank rebuild! (Hopefully not to soon!) :lol:



:clap: :clap: :clap:

Thread is saved, as I now also am the proud owner of an untouched H1B in a very nice shape.

Jorgen

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 9:33 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 6:45 am
Posts: 319
We are very fortunate to have a bearing expert in our ranks. Dave Conforti, owner of Worldwide bearings is a triples enthusiast who will soon be making an attempt at the LSR on a modified H2. He loves triples and will help you with any information you need. He has sponsored our team for ten years and we love him like a brother...no kidding, great guy.

http://worldwidebearings.com/

One of the coolest things he came up with was one ceramic ball for your clutch pusher, never weld the shafts together again.

And another endorsement, he sent us a set of wheel bearings and in his instructions he said to prop the wheel up, give it a good spin and time how long it took to stop, do it with the old bearings and again with the new Silicon bearings. Old bearings, about five to six revolutions, not too bad. New Silicon bearings......it spun for an HOUR !!!!!!


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