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Working on 2 unusual Hondas
http://www.kawi2strokes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=12379		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  GUTS [ Tue Jan 03, 2017 5:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Working on 2 unusual Hondas
Leroy, bought these 2 Hondas a while back and asked me if I could figure out why the 1958 JC58 125 wouldn't run and also restore the 1957 SE(ME?)250. I could find zero information about these bikes because Honda motorcycles weren't available in the USA until 1959 so I grabbed my meter and started checking. After a while I figured out the ignition coil is bad. I took the protective sheath off the old coil and tried to find an obvious break or other non-connection and I found verdigris had rotted the wire off the connecting stud. I reattached it with solder(I only lost 1/2" of wire so I thought it wouldn't change resistance enough to matter)and checked it again and it still had no continuity so it probably has grunge growing other places inside. Luckily Leroy has an extra JC58 waiting to be restored so I cobbed the stator assembly out of it, tossed it in the bike and it fired right up and runs great. I am going to find a place to re-wind the coil and put it back in the old plate. Pretty cool bike, a flat head, overhead valve 4-stroke single. When it was running if you closed your eyes it sounded like a Trail 70. It is now in Las Vegas to be sold at Mecums at the end of the month. I wish I could have kept it.

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Very simple engine.
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The bad coil
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The 250. I'm not positive of the Letter designation.
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It's pretty fun working on all these oddball bikes Leroy has, quite an education. :D
Author:  BarryB [ Tue Jan 03, 2017 5:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Working on 2 unusual Hondas
I love how old bikes were built - Very interesting.....

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Author:  H1Steve [ Tue Jan 03, 2017 5:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Working on 2 unusual Hondas
Great story and thanks for posting the cool pictures. :thumbup:
Author:  Evans Ward [ Tue Jan 03, 2017 5:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Working on 2 unusual Hondas
Oldest Hondas I've ever seen.... thanks for sharing. :clap:
Author:  usernameandpassword [ Tue Jan 03, 2017 7:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Working on 2 unusual Hondas
Just being out for a spin and getting the experience of how they did it back then with the top of the line engineering Of that era, that's always cool. 8-)
Author:  H2RTuner [ Tue Jan 03, 2017 9:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Working on 2 unusual Hondas
I spoke recently over the phone about a pair of very old Honda's, are these those two? They are sure neat,. Have you had the valve covers off yet? The fellow I spoke with and I figured the finned covers on the engine tops were valve covers. There was a 250, and a 125.
Author:  GUTS [ Tue Jan 03, 2017 9:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Working on 2 unusual Hondas
Yup, that was me Dave. I took the finned valve cover off to soda blast it, very simple, just a hollow space for the rocker arms. I went over the engine cosmetically, painted the covers, polished the bright work, and cleaned the cases, it turned out very nice. I went through the carb too and it's a peculiar design(to me anyway)because the float chamber is separate from the main carb body. I got the fuel tank cleaned mostly, there is still a little rust, and I cleaned the fuel lines and the oil line. This engine times by setting the point gap and I set it at .035" as per the factory setting(how I found that is a story in itself)but it had no spark at that gap so I reset it to .025" and it fired first kick. I had avgas in the carb bowl and I gave a tiny shot of starting fluid through the carb before I kicked it over. I ran it for about 15 seconds and it even idled nice. Whoever buys it can finish cleaning the tank, fill it with gas and go cruising, I think it will run fine. It felt good to hear it run finally because Leroy said he had it for over a year and nobody could get it to run. Yesterday I had a few minutes to look at the 250 a little closer and it also has a rusty tank but it has good spark. Leroy said when it's done this spring I am supposed to put about 100 miles on it before I take it back, should be a gas. If somebody knows of a good place to send the coil for re-winding I would sure like to hear of it.
Author:  husson73 [ Wed Jan 04, 2017 2:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Working on 2 unusual Hondas
:thumbup:
Cb 92 is on my wishing list :mrgreen:
Author:  H2RTuner [ Wed Jan 04, 2017 2:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Working on 2 unusual Hondas
I thought so, looks like we were fairly close on the engines. Carbs back then were mostly patterned after the English Snail's, remote float chamber. These were fairly easy to work with, just messy.

Just about any good electrical resto person should be able to rewind that coil. Just have to have the resistance spec for it.

We spoke of setting the timing, does the point set have a timing plate they are mounted to as well as their independent gap adjustment? I ran see where a closer gap would work easier with a weak coil. For that old stuff, .035 point gap is huge. 025 sounds more like it. Just remember, if there is no separate timing adjustment over the point gap, wider point gap advances timing, closer regards it. As we spoke of, there should be timing marks some place on the rotor/flywheel.

I doubt Honda would use a stop bolt through the front of the case to lock the crank at the timing position.

Those bikes look great. Have fun with them. Let me know if you need tech help with them, but you look like you are doing great already.
Author:  GUTS [ Wed Jan 04, 2017 9:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Working on 2 unusual Hondas
Thanks Dave I appreciate that. The points are mounted directly on the side of the engine, no backing plate. The points have slightly oblong holes for adjustment. The points aren't the best and maybe that's why it won't time out at .035". I didn't try to clean the points because the surfaces are still pretty flat and they are still sparking. I don't like to file points, I think that just accelerates their fail point. I'm restoring an S1C and a KH250 for Leroy while I'm messing with these Hondas so It will be a month or so before I get around to the 250 but I think it will be fun.
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