I'm sure someone will chime in........ Just as a side note, there is a company making TZ 750 cases again........
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| On the racing 4s why 180 instead of 90 http://www.kawi2strokes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=12723 |
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| Author: | 4cyl h2 [ Tue Apr 25, 2017 8:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | On the racing 4s why 180 instead of 90 |
Seems like I remember Kevin Cameron talking about some of the tz750 engines being converted to a 90 degree firing order but not working as well as the 180 and being put back to 180. Anybody know or have opinions why?? |
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| Author: | Ja-Moo [ Tue Apr 25, 2017 8:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: On the racing 4s why 180 instead of 90 |
I'm sure someone will chime in........ Just as a side note, there is a company making TZ 750 cases again........
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| Author: | 4cyl h2 [ Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: On the racing 4s why 180 instead of 90 |
Moo I'd like your opinion on the firing order ? And on the cases who and how much? Are all tz parts still needed internally ? |
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| Author: | Ja-Moo [ Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: On the racing 4s why 180 instead of 90 |
4cyl h2 wrote: Moo I'd like your opinion on the firing order ? And on the cases who and how much? Are all tz parts still needed internally ? It's a good question about the 90 degree crank, one would think that would be preferred for even power distribution for each engine revolution. The alternative also looks good as you get 375cc's of power at a time with the 180, which makes good torque. Which looks to be better on the track with sticky tires that can handle it. It could also have a vibration factor also. I am only taking an educated guess here. As for as the TZ 750 stuff, I'm on their page on Facebook. I'm not sure if anyone can get to it, but here it is. You can probably google Consortium racing out of Australia, also. https://www.facebook.com/ConsortiumRacing/ |
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| Author: | 4cyl h2 [ Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: On the racing 4s why 180 instead of 90 |
I originally planned on a 90. The clutch baskets and trans gears in the rd seem weak and thought the 2 power pulses at the same time was bound to break something thanks to Ryan on the banshee board I now have a billet basket but still worried about trans. And I am hoping the 90 will have an awesome screaming sound in the powerband. My kaw being a 180 does run good and of course sounds like a twin. ( kinda like a banshee) do u have any experience with the zeeltronic ign or have one yourself ?? I've got my ign working now at 90'degrees on 4 cylinders by making a rotor and using 4 doya ignition pods and will have primary and full retard settings but even for the money I'm wondering if the zeeltronic would be worth it. John thanks again for the input. I'm hoping tuner will kick in too I'm guessing he was there and involved when racers and tuners were trying this |
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| Author: | Ja-Moo [ Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: On the racing 4s why 180 instead of 90 |
I do have a Zeel, as I always wanted a programmable ignition. I have had it a couple of years, and will probably try it when I reinstall the 500 in my bike. The 750 stage II ported Stage II reeded engine I have now actually has too much power right now, and I will be detuning it back to a stage I reed conversion and 34's instead of 38's after the Gap. So I wasn't looking for more hp with my current set up. A few guys are running the Zeel, and while cool, and probably necessary for their types of motors, it seems they are always playing around with the timing points and reporting performance difference of .5 degree changes that seems unbelievable to me, personally. I would guess it would take some dyno time to get things spot on. All in all, I think it would be worth it to you with your set ups. Piston port motors respond really well to timing changes and UFO's if running round slide carbs. |
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| Author: | 4cyl h2 [ Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: On the racing 4s why 180 instead of 90 |
I see your point especially on the h2 motors and all of my carbs already have ufo's 34s & 38s sure made a nice drive ability improvement on the 3 cylinders and one of the 38s even worked great on my old yz 250. With just needle and main jet adjustment. Got the tuning specs from Darren Abrams Funny tho ufo's didn't make hardly any noticeable improvement on the 4 popper sounds like I need to save up for a zeeltronic |
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| Author: | Ja-Moo [ Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: On the racing 4s why 180 instead of 90 |
Darren has been a good friend for many years. He is one of the few guys I know, that really knows their $hit about building a high hp Triple. And it is interesting about the UFOs and your 4. I can only guess the extra cylinder makes the difference. |
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| Author: | johns02r6 [ Wed Apr 26, 2017 9:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: On the racing 4s why 180 instead of 90 |
in 2009 Yamaha made the 90 degree phase change to their R1 (1000cc 4cyl). It was called "cross-plane" technology. They ditched the 180 degree crank that all jap 4's have used forever. The hype was that the 90 degree crank did a better job of putting power to the ground and converting it to forward movement. The reality is the new bikes were down 30hp from the other liter-bikes of the same year. I had a customer bring me one, a 2009 model, complaining that something must be wrong with it because it wasn't nearly as violent as his 2002 model. Nothing was wrong with it. Just didn't make as much power. It didn't power-wheelie or blow the tire off when whacked. The "cross-plane" bike performed well around the race track, but sucked for hooligan work. Since then Yamaha has made vast improvements and got the power numbers back up to where they are competitive again. Kawi and Suzuki still lead the pack though. A 5th gen ZX10R (2016+) put down 179rwhp on my dynojet last summer with a stock engine. For comparison, a stock H2 750 with chambers and 34's will make around 75-80rwhp. 
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| Author: | H2RTuner [ Wed Apr 26, 2017 11:47 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: On the racing 4s why 180 instead of 90 |
Honda tried racing the 90 degree 4 inline setups one year, Yamaha tested but never raced them. They simply made too much crankshaft vibration and crank whip to be useful. When they simply revised the cranks and ignition pickups back to a 180 firing phasing, whole different story, fun returned. |
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