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SKF Energy Efficient bearings
http://www.kawi2strokes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=7554
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Author:  Evans Ward [ Fri Jan 10, 2014 9:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: SKF Energy Efficient bearings

What size is the bearing for the H2 clutch pusher?

Author:  Jim [ Fri Jan 10, 2014 9:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: SKF Energy Efficient bearings

Bill B wrote:
And another endorsement, he sent us a set of wheel bearings and in his instructions he said to prop the wheel up, give it a good spin and time how long it took to stop, do it with the old bearings and again with the new Silicon bearings. Old bearings, about five to six revolutions, not too bad. New Silicon bearings......it spun for an HOUR !!!!!!


Sounds like the old bearings were sealed and the new ones were shielded.

Author:  Walms [ Fri Jan 10, 2014 10:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: SKF Energy Efficient bearings

Even if they are open bearings, the type AND the amount of grease is critical for drag.
As an example with spindle bearings, they are washed and re packed with Kluber NBU 15 grease and the amount of grease is weighed to get the correct volume... Too much and the spindle will overheat at speed.
This Kluber grease isn't cheap but I bet an old wheel bearing would spin up nice with it. ;)

Author:  H2RTuner [ Fri Jan 10, 2014 12:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SKF Energy Efficient bearings

One key reason the clutch push rods used to weld themselves together, was, some shops actually bought into the myth that automatic transmission fluid (ATF) should be used in our transmissions. That stuff is way too light for our transmissions, and, it isn't a great lubricant. The myth about ATF was/is, that it lowers friction, allowing better mileage, less power loss, fixes your plumbing, helps with baking cakes and cookies, and a lot of other stuff it just doesn't help with at all.

We found that a NATURAL oil, 30, 20W-50 engine, 85W-90, or straight 90 gear oils, worked correctly. When I worked at shops, I changed a LOT of worn out, broken transmission and clutch parts in our triples that had been damaged by ATF, only ONE that had a 3rd gear circlip issue with the natural oils. I never had one of my own transmissions wear out, break, fail to work as designed with the natural oils in place, and, that includes A, S, H racers, KR racers, all sorts of road and drag racing triples transmissions.

Author:  Gerrit [ Fri Jan 10, 2014 5:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SKF Energy Efficient bearings

JA, the S series use six 6305-sized bearings. I suppose you will now suggest that NTN gave Kawasaki the 6 Yen discount on three of them?

Re the 6205s, I always felt they were too small, so I replaced them with three plastic-caged Steyr NJ205/C3 roller bearings. The H1-R crankshaft used rollers as well so I figured there was no reason why this shouldn't work.

Author:  RODH2 [ Fri Jan 10, 2014 6:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SKF Energy Efficient bearings

Dave, it is unfortunate that KAWASAKI designated ATF for transmissions in their maintenance manuals!!!

Author:  H2RTuner [ Fri Jan 10, 2014 7:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SKF Energy Efficient bearings

Yup, Rod, that was the factory, NOT Kawasaki, U.S.A., we always specified 85W-90 gear oil.

Author:  Bobo [ Thu Jan 16, 2014 8:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: SKF Energy Efficient bearings

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-XUrYDC_wY

Pretty cool video on ceramic bearings....

Author:  Bill B [ Thu Jan 16, 2014 9:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: SKF Energy Efficient bearings

When we first installed them we noticed that when the wheel didn't have enough momentum to make a full revolution it would go almost all the way around, stop and reverse and go almost all the way the other way, it would go back and forth for several minutes. So you could place a small weight on the bottom of the rim and give it a slight spin and see where it stopped, when we were done the wheel was perfectly balanced. Really cool stuff.

I've seen a demonstration where they put a stainless ball and a ceramic ball between two metal plates and put them on a 20 ton press, afterwards the stainless ball had flat spots on both sides, the ceramic ball put a dimple in the steel plate.

Author:  Walms [ Wed Jan 29, 2014 5:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SKF Energy Efficient bearings

P.K. wrote:
In the period 1996 to 2011 I have had five bearing cage failures on my own H1 cranks and I have seen at least another three cage failures on core cranks I have bough for rebuilding. When the last failure occurred late summer 2011 I really felt I had enough of this. I contacted Chris Ritchie and asked him if he was willing to rebuild a crank for me where I supplied the bearings. I told him what I had in mind and that it was to be an experiment. He was genuinely interested and accepted the job.

Next I contacted a local bearing supplier and ordered the following SKF bearings:
3 ea. 6205 ETN9/C4
3 ea. 6305 TN9/C4
1 ea. 6305 N/C4

The TN9 designation means the bearing has a glass fiber reinforced Polyamide (PA66) cage.
I could not find a 6305 bearing with both TN9 cage and a snap ring groove, and I didn't want to use one steel caged bearing, so I came up with the following;
I removed the plastic cage from one of the 6305 TN9 bearings, then put aside the cage and tossed the rest. Then I drilled out the cage rivets in the 6305 N bearing and carefully removed the steel cage, took the bearing apart and cleaned the parts thoroughly before putting it back together with the plastic cage.

Now, why TN9 and why C4 clearance?
This choice was based on some research I did on more or less modern 2-strokes (at least when compared to the triples). I noticed that most of these (KTM, Cagiva, etc...) used plastic caged bearings with C4 clearance (often SKF) and I also learned that the 6205 ETN9/C4 was one of the most commonly used crankshaft bearings in go-karting.

I then sent a good core crank and the bearings to Chris, and I remember telling him to locate the bearings with the open side of the cage away from the crank webs (it just felt like the right orientation). A couple of weeks later the rebuilt crank returned with a note from Chris saying that he was very happy with the result.

It's now been 2 1/2 years and approximately 12000 miles. I have deliberately given it a hard time with 10 000+ RPM several times daily (it's a wonder I still have my license). All my dyno runs have been close to 11 000 RPM. Peek HP is just shy of 70 RWHP from 8500 to 9000 RPM and from there it falls off to 60 RWHP at close to 11 000 RPM. The crank is still holding so I think I'm on to something here.

You may have noticed that the small bearings (6205) were ETN9 and big ones were TN9, and about a year ago I learned the difference. The designation E has the following meaning (quoted from SKF site):

Deviating or modified internal design with same boundary dimensions; as a rule the significance of the letter is bound to the particular bearing series; usually indicates reinforced rolling element complement.

Now this was a lucky coincident as it turns out that these bearings are significantly stronger than standard 6205 bearings. I have always felt that Kawasaki made a poor decision when they stepped down the bearing size on the H1 crank. I believe the 6205 is a bit on the weak side and that it would have been better with 6305 for all six bearings.

Here is a data table from the SKF site:

Image

As you can see the ETN9 bearings have significantly higher Basic load ratings than a standard bearing.

Anyway, I just though I'd share.


PK



PK, a couple of questions... On my last rebuild, I ordered some transmission bearings from my bearing supplier with the N designation and they had a narrower retaking ring groove, I ended up returning them and getting them from Kawasaki.

I'm in the mode of following your lead with the polyamide cages with C4 clearance (c4 has 10-12 microns more internal clearance than c3 btw)
I then tried to find out the spec of the SKF retaining ring groove but the only info was they meet ISO 464. I don't have that spec.... :(
Anyway, do you recall an issue with this groove?
The bearings I was able to get with the N suffix the last time would suit a retaining ring similar to the ones retaining the gears on the transmission shafts, about 1/2 the required width.

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