Kawi2strokes.com Forum

Not wanting to open up an old (long) debate from 2010 but adding this for it's search value only.
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HI GUYS , ON THE H2 CLUTCH IF YOU DONT PUT THE OUTER BASKET RING WHAT HAPPEN???...
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I have run them that way forever, no problems here........
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After talking to an H2 drag racer about this after the last time it came up here, I personally wouldn't omit the ring. I was told that if something goes wrong, like an overspeed due to a missed gear, etc., and the basket fingers spread enough to let the clutch disks' teeth get under them, it is disastrous. Because of a different primary ratio, an H1 clutch basket spins slower, and doesn't use a ring.
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Clutch basket can go....B O O M, Clacka, Clacka, Clacka, STEEL shrapnel everywhere, lock up the whole mess, skid the rear tire, spit the rider right off the bike, over the bars, very messy, big time! We always used to have a saying, "You can usually get out of engine stop problems by pulling the clutch in, but, you cannot ever get out of a transmission failure". That said, IF the clutch frags, AND locks up the input shaft, consider that as a transmission failure, the locked up kind. very messy. PUT THE RING ON THE CLUTCH HUB!
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I am running the ring on one of the H2's and on the other I did not install. I spoke to Damon Kirkland about the topic. He told me that I should throw that ring in the garbage. He said He has ran the shiett out of them bikes for years and did not ever have a problem. With saying that, I sure would not want to find out the hard way. But that is my current setup.
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Some suicidal types don't run the ring, others, with common sense, do. All I know is, when, not if, but when those steel fingers come off the hub, and OUT THE CASE, your foot is right there, and if you don't wear steel shoes, well...you can oimagine what can happen.......gimpy. Now, figure this, if the engineers at Kawasaki had figured the H2 didn't absolutely need that ring, they wouldn't have put it in the engine, guaranteed. And, lets take another look at this, 2010, minus 1972, leaves 38.....YEARS OF AGE. Steel cracks, and fractures, and frags..... RUN THE RING
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A curved 3mm thick steel tang 39 mm long. 1.88 primary ratio. That's 5,300 "clutch" rpm at 10,000 crank rpm. The tangs would have to "spread" over 3mm outward with all the side load pressure from the motor. I'm betting it would take 100,000 "clutch" rpm to get near 3mm of deflection. I wouldn't worry at all about it, and I don't. But find a ring if you want, don't forget the second fiber has short tangs to fit under the ring.
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This is true. Where I grew up the hills were so steep and long, when your ball rolled down the hill you just said "screw it"...

So did you go with the Moo-Kirkland theory, or the everyone-else theory?

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If it surges, that's normal, upshift.

Since its 50/50 here look at this the other way around…what will happen if you do use it

Since I have it - I'll use it. If I did not have it I would not use it. Simple.

But again I only put this in the board for search/reference purposes since there was no thread about it.

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This is true. Where I grew up the hills were so steep and long, when your ball rolled down the hill you just said "screw it"...

Haven't heard an argument not to use it so the decision seems simple to me.
If Baxter says it; it is a fact (at least about drag bikes).

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There are only two types of motor sport racing:
Nitro and everything else
(Sometimes referred to as fast and slow)

Key words "drag bike"...........

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Twist the throttle, tilt the horizon, and have a great time. What triples are all about...........

I dont run one on the drag bike.... Wait I have a slider, never mind

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"Patina" Derived from latin upaytina, definition: Too cheap to fix it

I did some calculations on centripetal forces at 5320 clutch RPM (10 000 crank RPM).
The outward deflection of the clutch basket fingers will be 0.2 mm. This doesn't sound like much and there is probably plenty room for it inside the clutch cover.
More disturbingly however is that the stress level at the root of the fingers will be 241 MPa (35 ksi). This is beyond the yield stress of mild steel, and then we haven't even taken into account the transfer of engine torque through the clutch. I could do those numbers too and superimpose the results, but my guess is that the contribution is small compared to that of the centripetal forces.

Looking closely at the clutch basket I would guess it is deep drawn, and deep drawing is only done using mild steel.



So I guess the question is; Did Kawasaki heat treat the baskets afterwards or did they add the ring for increased safety margin?

PK

It seems some here think the fingers are only trying to spread due to centrifugal force. A much bigger force that is trying to spread the basket fingers is the driven tab of the friction plates.

As the contact edges between the friction plate tabs and the clutch basket fingers wear a slight taper starts to develop. Now add to this taper (in the wrong direction to retain the basket fingers under load) extreme torque (dumping the clutch) and the basket fingers will splay. If they splay outward beyond their elastic limit they will remain spayed (I've seen splayed clutch baskets from drag raced H1s, that don't have the retainer ring like an H2).

Lastly if the basket fingers continue to be fatigued back and forth (even without a permanent set) eventually cracks will develop until it breaks off completely.

The time to basket finger failure is dictated by a combo of the severity of the load (how much abuse/power being transmitted) and the number of cycles.

J

Well, the 500 clutch is almost the same and no ring, and revs higher..........

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Twist the throttle, tilt the horizon, and have a great time. What triples are all about...........