Kawi2strokes.com Forum

Last I rode the old S2 (5 years ago?) I was having trouble with missed shifts into 2nd ....especially after a hard run, coming to a stop and then taking off again....(it never jumped out once in) But you know, 1st......and then the shift to 2nd when the selector says, "nah, I prefer neutral right now"..and the poor sap behind me gets fogged and I try hopelessly to click back down and ride away with some dignity.

I have the top gear case upside down on the bench, with everything in there...looking at how it shifts, paying close attention to the shift into 2nd. I know that it would certainly behave differently while running...however, if I manually align all the dogs with the holes they need to go into, then you can see them working...or not....

For example, as I line things up for the shift into 1st, its really nice, clockwork. back and forth .

Now bear with my insane explanation:

Trying 2nd is another story. As it sets, it will not go. As you shift into 2nd, 2 things need to happen.
For 1, the gear that engages for 1st comes out to its neutral postion-and then just a bit more
Secondly, the other fork moves the gear on the other end in to engage 2nd.

I isolated the problem by taking the fork pins out one by one. The gear that meshes on shifting into 2nd slides and engages back and forth quite well with the other fork pin absent.

The gear that comes out of 1st, and then moves over a tad more as 2nd is selected? No...when I have just that fork pin in it still does not work.

There is a channel cut into the shaft itself, and there is a pin in that gear that rides in that channel---it limits the gear's travel in the direction it needs to go for the shift into 2nd to happen. THAT is whats holding it up. The shift fork would like to move it a bit more, but it cant.

I occurs to me that perhaps the output shaft is out of alignment so to speak--if the shaft sat a bit more to the right as Im looking at it, the shift into 2nd would probably go....I checked the parts diagrams and I dont see what would nessecarily keep that shaft in position....The bearing's clip that sits in the slot on the sprocket side is in position, as is the little nub on the bushing on the other end. There is no play back and forth on the output shaft either, so shimming doesnt seem to be an option.

If I tapped the shaft over would it move? what would keep it from moving later if thats the case? I could possibly mill out that slot on the shaft a sixteenth or so, but ehhhhh....

What am I missing here? Obviously, the symptom Im seeing doesnt quite match what I saw on the road, but it seems to point to some trouble, I certainly wouldnt put it back together with it acting like that!!

Any input would be greatly appreciated!!!!

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1972 S2 350, 1972 F9 350 Bighorn, 1975 KX400, 1981 YZ465, 1980 XT500 (Built for MX) , 1987 KD80, 1995 MZ Skorpion, TTR 125, 1994 KDX200 , 1978 Mobylette, 1985 KX350R-F91m (Frankenstein) and a Doodle Bug

There are balls in the shaft that require centrifugal force to dislocate before shifting is allowed.

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Answers are here: http://kawatriple.com/

The S series always had troubles with second gear when ran hard. The forks are usually worn or bent. It only takes a few missed shifts and 2nd gear is shot. And as Dale said there is a ball bearing lock out for a positive neutral. You have to spin the shaft very fast to get into second also.

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Twist the throttle, tilt the horizon, and have a great time. What triples are all about...........

Thanks.
The forks look good except the hi fork the one with the big ring, it's skinned up a Little but so is every used on in ebay, and mine looks better than most. nos ones are not to be had. 4th and 5th always worked good anyway although 20 years ago when I first got it 5th whined a bit, that went away after a hundred miles or so.

It looks to me the gear that would get beat up is the one in the output shaft that has the dogs on both sides, called top gear, output shaft. That looks ok to me. I will check 2nd gear itself really well.

That centrifugal ball thing is intriguing, is that in the gear and then slips further in to clear the end of that channel I was talking about?

In any case this thing needed going thru, my main reason was to improve the 2nd gear issue, baring any damage, it being the nature of the beast....I'll take a closer look at the forks and stuff.

Thanks again!
So PS, if I were to throw new parts at it in the hopes of improving my issue.....the two shift forks on that shaft and that gear with two sets of dogs????

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1972 S2 350, 1972 F9 350 Bighorn, 1975 KX400, 1981 YZ465, 1980 XT500 (Built for MX) , 1987 KD80, 1995 MZ Skorpion, TTR 125, 1994 KDX200 , 1978 Mobylette, 1985 KX350R-F91m (Frankenstein) and a Doodle Bug

Did you get your trans fixed? I have one I won’t be using .

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http://davestriples.com/

I put the halves back together. I removed those balls from the gear. Sounds crazy I know, but I have a nagging feeling that the 2nd gear lock out deal might just contribute to missing second. Most of the time when it happened, I was taking off real easy, maybe not enough RPMs...balls not moving right, who knows. Its not like it jumped out of 2nd, just once in a while would not make it in. I'll take my chances without the lockout.

It will be a while before I get to test it out. I have pistons on the way, and still have a LOT to go before I will get to test ride it. Got many irons in the fire, and not enough money or time!!

Thanks again!

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1972 S2 350, 1972 F9 350 Bighorn, 1975 KX400, 1981 YZ465, 1980 XT500 (Built for MX) , 1987 KD80, 1995 MZ Skorpion, TTR 125, 1994 KDX200 , 1978 Mobylette, 1985 KX350R-F91m (Frankenstein) and a Doodle Bug

Just a note...
The balls are to enable finding neutral.
Missed gears are commonly caused by sloppy linkage.

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Answers are here: http://kawatriple.com/

Thanks,
I did go thru the linkage a long time ago, I'll revisit that issue when I get to that point, I have access to better equipment and am a little more skilled than I was back then.

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1972 S2 350, 1972 F9 350 Bighorn, 1975 KX400, 1981 YZ465, 1980 XT500 (Built for MX) , 1987 KD80, 1995 MZ Skorpion, TTR 125, 1994 KDX200 , 1978 Mobylette, 1985 KX350R-F91m (Frankenstein) and a Doodle Bug

My H2 would overshift into a false neutral, look for both the shift stop pin to stop the shift arm at the exact right place, can either not go far enough or go too far, and the shift detent arm spring to have no real tension. I put some TIG weld beads on the sides of the shift stop pin, this is what limits the shift arm from going too far, and filed it from there to tune the shift throw. The shift detent was lame and had very little actual detent ability, I did a lot of work to that, but you can just make a new spring base plate to increase the detent spring tension.

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1974 Kawasaki H2B 750, 1981 Yamaha XV750 Cafe, 1986 Kawasaki KDX200, 2003 Honda XR100, 2004 SDG140. 2006 Ninja 500R Turbo intercooled fuel injected.