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 Post subject: Psi in check valve h2b
PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 1:46 pm 

Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 11:29 am
Posts: 54
Location: california
Hoping everyone is having a great Christmas. I've been reading up on what the pop on the check valves (4.2-4.6 psi), my valves pop around 4.0-4.2 psi dry no oil, when I put oil in they pop around 7-8 psi. How should I be checking the pop wet or dry? I also have new check valves for the carbs what should they be popping at since they are new, these are popping around 7 psi dry.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 3:13 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2011 6:37 am
Posts: 10460
Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico
Wet, as that is the working environment. Are they stock? As usually they are pretty much packed in after 40 years.

EDIT, seems there is no actual Kawasaki reference to dry or wet. So I will negate my response. :wtf:

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Last edited by Ja-Moo on Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 3:50 pm 

Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:25 am
Posts: 3137
4.6 psi, DRY, NO oil in the line, nor valve. And, you might want to use a hand pumping bulb to add the pressure, very easy to destroy the spring in the valve with too much checking pressure.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 3:57 pm 
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Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico
Where is that designated Dave, never saw that before?

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Twist the throttle, tilt the horizon, and have a great time. What triples are all about...........


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 4:54 pm 

Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:25 am
Posts: 3137
That is the way we all did it when I worked at Team Kawasaki USA (and in the dealerships I worked in after TK USA), when the H2's were new, directly from the Japanese techs. 4.6, air only, dry, listen for the check ball to blow off its seat, if needed, GENTLY stretch spring, retest, repeat, until 4.6 psi is attained.

Also, it must be pressure blowing the ball off its seat, NOT vacuum pulling it open. It has worked correctly for me since 1972, and I have fixed a multitude of lines that had "other ways" done to them, that did not work. The info we used came directly to us from Kenji (Ken) Yoshida, factory racing engine, and street engine development engineer. We also heard same from people like Windy Briggs, Chief USA Dealer Services Tech School Manager, and, a handful of Mikuni engineers that worked on G/F/S/H series oil pump/system design and engineering back then.

So, everyone else heard how to do it...from......just whom?

It really doesn't matter what other hair-brained "gospel fixes" have come up, the way we did it, IS the way it works best, in my educated, hands-on opinion.

Goes to the same sort of misinformation that has followed Steve and I after we drilled the first set of brake disks for Yvon's H2R's about this time of year in 1972. We have heard so many different reasons and theories, we just stopped caring about the rest, when it was purely to reduce un-sprung front end weight to try to get the front forks working better.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:43 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2011 6:37 am
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Ah, so no actual Kawasaki reference material. OK. That's what I was looking for.

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Twist the throttle, tilt the horizon, and have a great time. What triples are all about...........


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 8:15 pm 

Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:25 am
Posts: 3137
Ah, yes, factory service school and Mikuni direct info.

Then, there is the question, -why air, not oil?". Well, you can hear air when it leaks past a check valve seat, can't hear, nor easily measure small leaks.

Most techs never got that close to the oiling systems, they just let them over oil and smoke away.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 25, 2017 4:48 am 
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Joined: Sun Sep 06, 2015 6:01 am
Posts: 290
Location: Metamora, MI
Greets to all on this Christmas Day!

Dave, your "Also, it must be pressure blowing the ball off its seat, NOT vacuum pulling it open" is a bit hard to reason why.
Is it not just a delta P across the ball/seat?

cliff


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 25, 2017 7:59 am 

Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:25 am
Posts: 3137
From what we were always told, pressure pushing the check ball open is more stable than vacuum pulling it open. It really doesn't matter to me, the pressure method works well for me, and, obviously many more people for over 4 - 1/2 decades.

There seem to be quite a few "new procedures" that have come along down the road that aren't outlined in service manuals. Some seem to work, some, like jamming a seal designed to be pinched into place as horizontally split cases are fitted back together, but now forced into a too small seal bore, that have been blown into a "great fix", that just isn't the way to do it right as far as I am concerned. My choice, split the cases, do it the right way. Show me the FDM or service bulletin telling me it is the right way to misapply a seal designed to be set into place by a completely different method.

Then, there are all the different ways to set carb balance. Most manuals tell us to feel the exhaust strengths of all cylinders with their pressures, adjust from there for idle balance, then finger feel the slides lifting from there to set off idle balance. Very primitive, considering there are devices, never mentioned, that work to do those functions far more accurately than the manuals for our bikes state, like the Uni-Syn, and the way I do it (like setting 4 stroke carb banks), vacuum fittings in each carb, and a mercury manometer.

Back in 1972, nobody used manometer to balance carbs, Honda was the only company to use any sort of device to set multiple carbs, and they are, and never were accurate, most didn't read the same on the dial at the same vacuum pull, even with the adjustable dampers they had, but, a manometer, "Carb Stix", works so much better. The manometer were never mentioned in the Honda manuals, nor were jamming an engine seal into a too small pinch set seal bore hole.

It has always been my position that anyone can do it any way they wish, I choose to do a procedure the way it works best, by actual hands on, and common sense experience. Do it as you wish, and let me do it the way it has been proven, by me, the way I have proven to do so, correctly.

I really do enjoy being run over the coals for posting how it does work, insinuate I am either a lunatic, or some sort of liar, when others post obvious attacks, innuendo and "gospel truth" that has no fact at all. It is way past old.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 25, 2017 12:23 pm 

Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 11:29 am
Posts: 54
Location: california
Thanks Tuner and everyone else, I was using the pull method instead of the push method so i"m changing the setup, I'm rebuilding the non-rebuild able check valves and have made a new 3 into 1 oil line looks just like oem, tried to post pic can't get it to download from photobucket. Once I get the pop right I'LL leak test it again if that passes I"ll be good to go.


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