Kawi2strokes.com Forum

Of the 2 dozen or so H1 and H2 motors I have built I had one problem on about 4 of them. The tooth on the shift shaft that rolls the drum. It seems
that if it is worn just a little there will be times when it can't roll the drum and get stuck. The first time it happened was on a 69 H1 and the motor was
finished and in the bike. Shifted good on the bench. I learned after that is check it really good before the clutch cover goes on. The other problem I
had on one of my H2's was a worn grove on the shift drum. It wasn't much but enough to get stuck between gears.

I have also used 3 sets of the new shift forks that Z1 and Jess sells. All 3 motors I used them in shifted tight on the bench but after just a few miles
shifted great. When I build up a motor these days, 90% of my time is spent shimming and testing the trans.

Sorry I was vague in my wording. What I meant was that the locations of the broken clips in the photos seems to be two different locations in the output shaft. The first picture looks like it is the clip that holds on the toothed washer that is nearest the needle bearing end of the shaft. The third picture shows the broken clip near the large ball bearing(#6005) end of the output shaft.

That third picture seems to have more than 2 shims total, "next" to second gear. I have been reading up for my own transmission trying to get smarter! Based on the maintenance manual and a service bulletin http://www.kawatriple.com/bulletins/73h-21.pdf there should be one or two shims, totaling 1 mm before the circlip is put on to hold second gear.

These transmissions are interesting/complex and I look forward to hearing what the pros do to fix it.

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Bruce
H1-D
Pacific Northwest

Barry, I have found these;

The circlips and thrust washers are double stamped, then hardened. They are literally struck from both sides as they are being made, producing a rounded edge, and a sharp edge, on different sides. On the thrust washers, the outer edge should have the sharp edge to the gear. On the circlip, the inner sharp edge goes to the outer edge of the circlip slot in the shaft. As stated above, if the rounded edge if the circlip is aimed to the onter edge of its groove, the circlip can roll out of the groove.

I only use thrust washers that have tabs on them, I never use the ones that can rotate on the shafts. There is one of the 5 thrust washers that needs a very small bit of trimming on the inner edge of the tab, to fit the one slot/gear that the groove arcs upwards at its end.

If one of the siots in a shaft is rounded off, I will use my Dremel tool with round abrasive cut off disk to basically back cut the rounded edge of the groove back into straight, but, this is very labor intensive, and there is the need to go very slowly, and also, if a slot is way, way too large after fixing it, the shaft is then unusable. I don't cut any slot more than .015 to get it back to right. I have a lathe, with all the tooling to do this job, but, I find the Dremel to work better. Key is, don't take a lot of metal off the slot edge to fix it, too much, new paper weight.

I use old type circlips to set up the spacing, they can be installed and removed a few times before they become unusable. Once I have set the distances, and for the actual final assembly, I will use either the later type Kawasaki, or Yamaha circlips, ONCE, only ON. The new clips are a one shot deal, they are only good ONCE, GOING ON, after that, trash can material.

When I set up a gearbox, I always use two tools I made from PCV plumbing pipe. They are cut to length to replace the sprocket spacer and sprocket, and the clutch assembly. I hold them in place with the end nuts, hand tightened. This process gets the shafts loaded against the two ball bearings they use as setting devices, so the shafts sit loaded side to side as they should in the gear box cavity, so they don't give false settings during setup.

Hope this helps.

Barry, just curious, were you using the Glenns Kaw manual when you set everything up? I found that manual the most useful and easy to understand while shimming. I hope you get it figured out soon.

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Crankshaft Testimonials viewtopic.php?f=25&t=7593

"Let's keep your crankshaft great!"

Dave - really good stuff as always and always appreciated.
Charlie, I did not do anything other than replace the broken circlip with the new style. I took apart the one shaft bit by bit - replace the one circlip and put everything back. The bike ran find for several test rides then locked up again - same as before.

But as John pointed out I fubared one of the new circlips as it warped (semi bent) going in and would not stay in the groove. It was out of the groove when I took it apart but it's not the problem. It's not hitting anything and not causing any jams.

I have a set of REALLY good circlip tools I bought just for doing this.

There is something causing the gearbox to jam up but I'll be damned if I see anything obvious - I've been staring at this thing for weeks and dry/bench shifting as long - works fine! It's not rocket science here but I'm not seeing something that's causing the problem.

Somethings are best left for experts. Mark H has a tranny guy I might try or maybe I'll send to Gast if he has time.

Remember, this engine trans has run fine for almost 40 years when this happened during the summer - out of nowhere just locked up. Inspection everything looks pretty good - no metal in the oil and such and Charlie I checked everything for wear and such when I put your crank in what - couple years ago?

I'll keep you all posted but as of the point the H1 trans is too much effort now and time for an expert to have a go at it.
bb

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This is true. Where I grew up the hills were so steep and long, when your ball rolled down the hill you just said "screw it"...

I just re-studied your second picture more closely. The circlip cut in the shaft does appear to be angled outward from the base to the edge of the shaft. IF the inner edge of the circlip were facing away from the gear, it very well could be that the clip would be pushed outwards, up, and out of the groove.

The service bulletins that describe the issues with the spin type shims show the gear actually pushing hard against the shim and clip, and, actually bending both the shim and clip. that doesn't look like what is happening here, it looks like the cuts in the groove on the shaft are not consistently even around the shaft. This would allow the clip to literally bend/flex, crack, break.

One of the main problems with the original spin type shims and clips is that the pressure on them from the gear is exponentially increased as the clip and shim bend away from the gear, and the engagement dogs ride further apart, and possibly round the ends of the dogs off. Of course, a back cut dog set would tend to pull the gears together, so, if you have any back cutting done, and even if not, look very closely at the dogs on the gears for any adverse angles that might push the two gears apart.

Send the cases and tranny to Mark at R&D Motorsports! Job done!

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71 A7SS, 73 H1D, 75 H2C, 85 RG400
92 NSR250 MC21, 93 TZR250 3XV
03 ZRX 1200R

I agree that if you send it out, they need the cases and the hardware to mock it up properly too.
Honestly Barry its just an old triple. put it back together with a new circlip facing the right way and give it another shot!

Good info on these washers and clips. Do the new Kawasaki circlips have the sharp and rounded edges? I can't feel or see it on the OEM ones I have and someone told me they don't have the sharp/rounded edges. The toothed washer I have, 92024-033, does have noticeable edges. So I should put the sharp edge of the toothed washer towards the gear right?

Thanks!

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Bruce
H1-D
Pacific Northwest

Seems they may be manufacturing the clips differently now with no sharp edges.

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Twist the throttle, tilt the horizon, and have a great time. What triples are all about...........