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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:43 am 
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Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 10:23 pm
Posts: 3413
Location: Colorado Springs, CO. USA
Thirty eight years and no problems with this transmission. I've split the cases several times for things like kicker spring, seals etc.

*** None of the dowels are crushed etc. Everything is tight in the casing etc.

First time (last summer) the transmission locked in gear while riding, would not change up or down.
Open it up and saw a broken circlip and thought just age.
(first picture below).

Replaced it with the newer ones. Got a few short test rides around the block and it locked again...
This time the newer clip I replaced was out of place. Probably me since they suck to install - even with a good set of clip pliers...
(second picture below).

BUT -- in the interest of age and two casing splits in a few months -- I sent both transmission shafts and complete shift drum to Paul Gast.
He did a complete overhaul and BC.

Back together everything seemed fine, got down the block and it locked again - would not shift -- stuck in 3rd gear. Took off chain and pushed home.
Opened it up expecting something broken - but everything looks fine.

(third and fourth pictures below).

+++ What am I doing wrong or not checking? The pawl and all bits are fine, nothing bent, nothing broken etc.

When I dry shift everything seems OK. I do have to jiggle a couple of gears to get them all to move into place but that's normal right? I can also dry shift with the cases bolted together. I can usually get through the gear changes by spinning the primary shaft in the drive direction or by spinning forward/backward a few times to get the gears to slide in... usually.

Is there some special sequence not in the manuals or something else to align?
I'm stumped and at a loss. Three casing splits in a year is a but much. Argh. :banghead

First:

Image

Second:
Image

FBG pics:
Image

Image

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This is true. Where I grew up the hills were so steep and long, when your ball rolled down the hill you just said "screw it"...


Last edited by BarryB on Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:43 pm 

Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:25 am
Posts: 2210
Is the gearbox physically locking up in rotating, bike skids rear tire to a stop, you said you had to remove the chain to roll the bike?

Or, is it that it gets into one gear, and won't shift out of it?

For the latter, take a look at the curvatures on the shift lever as they sit in the pin area of the end of the shift drum. IF the shift stop pin is bent, which happens, and/or the hair pin spring is worn to the point it doesn't allow the curvature to completely clear one of the pins, the shifter won't grab the next shift pin on the drum. This usually happens when the stock, non adjustable stop pin bends, usually from the bike falling over, and shifter contacting the ground, bending the stop pin.

IF that is a problem, there is a service bulletin on the resources site that outlines installing an eccentric pin form an F5/F9 that can set the centering of the claws on the pins in the end of the drum.

Simple test of the stock non adjustable pin, loosen the lock nut, turn pin in and out of its mounting hole, if bent, end of pin will travel on a full circle arc, not centered.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:50 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 10:23 pm
Posts: 3413
Location: Colorado Springs, CO. USA
H2RTuner wrote:
Is the gearbox physically locking up in rotating, bike skids rear tire to a stop, you said you had to remove the chain to roll the bike?

Or, is it that it gets into one gear, and won't shift out of it?

For the latter, take a look at the curvatures on the shift lever as they sit in the pin area of the end of the shift drum. IF the shift stop pin is bent, which happens, and/or the hair pin spring is worn to the point it doesn't allow the curvature to completely clear one of the pins, the shifter won't grab the next shift pin on the drum. This usually happens when the stock, non adjustable stop pin bends, usually from the bike falling over, and shifter contacting the ground, bending the stop pin.

IF that is a problem, there is a service bulletin on the resources site that outlines installing an eccentric pin form an F5/F9 that can set the centering of the claws on the pins in the end of the drum.

Simple test of the stock non adjustable pin, loosen the lock nut, turn pin in and out of its mounting hole, if bent, end of pin will travel on a full circle arc, not centered.


Hi Dave! did not lock up in rotating -- just shifting out of the locked gear. I removed the chain because I could not get neutral.
Tim Steele suggested some of this on centering and the stop pin. They're fine and non of the pins are bent... but I'm going to recheck it now.
thanks, bb

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This is true. Where I grew up the hills were so steep and long, when your ball rolled down the hill you just said "screw it"...


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:37 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2011 2:26 pm
Posts: 1658
Location: Running Springs Ca
Hi Barry,

I'm flying into Colorado next Thursday night and will be in your area till Monday afternoon. I still have some extra H2 transmission parts in
the garage collecting dust so if there's something you need I can throw it on my carry-on. I could also take a look at your trans if you want.
I've done a couple of dozen over the years. I've had 2 H1's and 1 H2's that did the same thing as yours. The H2 had a worn shift fork shaft,
the H1's had a worn tooth that rolls the drum pins. All of them seem to get stuck between gears. Feel free to call me, I'll pm you my number.

Ron


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:56 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 10:23 pm
Posts: 3413
Location: Colorado Springs, CO. USA
67lotus49 wrote:
Hi Barry,

I'm flying into Colorado next Thursday night and will be in your area till Monday afternoon. I still have some extra H2 transmission parts in
the garage collecting dust so if there's something you need I can throw it on my carry-on. I could also take a look at your trans if you want.
I've done a couple of dozen over the years. I've had 2 H1's and 1 H2's that did the same thing as yours. The H2 had a worn shift fork shaft,
the H1's had a worn tooth that rolls the drum pins. All of them seem to get stuck between gears. Feel free to call me, I'll pm you my number.

Ron


Ron, PM Sent -- would be great to meet you!

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This is true. Where I grew up the hills were so steep and long, when your ball rolled down the hill you just said "screw it"...


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:46 pm 
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Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:32 am
Posts: 522
Location: Jarrettsville, MD
Barry, Did you call Paul? I would bet he would like a shot at getting it corrected. It would also be nice if you had another complete set to compare with yours.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:16 pm 

Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:25 am
Posts: 2210
The pin I am referring to is the one that the shift lever goes through down at the shift shaft at the bottom of the case. It has a hairpin spring on it, and re-centers the lever between shifts. It has a lock nut on it, and a slotted screwdriver slot on its face, just behind the clutch. I am not referring to the bearing holder pins, nor the shift pins in the end of the drum.

If you get the chance, try looking for the shift stop pin bulletin, it will have more info.

motogrid.com shows this part on the 1973 H series gear change mechanism page, part listed as 28, OEM p/n 92001-1455. The eccentric F series pin is listed on the service bulletin.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:19 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 10:23 pm
Posts: 3413
Location: Colorado Springs, CO. USA
triple cranks wrote:
Barry, Did you call Paul? I would bet he would like a shot at getting it corrected. It would also be nice if you had another complete set to compare with yours.


Not yet Charlie, between Ron, Tim and others -- I don't think it's a trans/gear issue -- I'm thinking the pawl on the shift shaft is not engaging enough. I have a spare but it's doing the same thing. Without the case on I can get through the gears easily enough with some shaft back and forth but when I attach the bottom case (to use the shift shaft pawl) it's not nearly as good.... getting close I think.

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This is true. Where I grew up the hills were so steep and long, when your ball rolled down the hill you just said "screw it"...


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:21 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 10:23 pm
Posts: 3413
Location: Colorado Springs, CO. USA
H2RTuner wrote:
The pin I am referring to is the one that the shift lever goes through down at the shift shaft at the bottom of the case. It has a hairpin spring on it, and re-centers the lever between shifts. It has a lock nut on it, and a slotted screwdriver slot on its face, just behind the clutch. I am not referring to the bearing holder pins, nor the shift pins in the end of the drum.

If you get the chance, try looking for the shift stop pin bulletin, it will have more info.

motogrid.com shows this part on the 1973 H series gear change mechanism page, part listed as 28, OEM p/n 92001-1455. The eccentric F series pin is listed on the service bulletin.


Got it Dave -- it looks OK. I think it's the pawl on the shift shaft being worn and not engaging enough....

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This is true. Where I grew up the hills were so steep and long, when your ball rolled down the hill you just said "screw it"...


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:27 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 10:23 pm
Posts: 3413
Location: Colorado Springs, CO. USA
Ouch --- rather than trust a used one ---- found a NOS shift shaft on ebay..... triple ouch.....

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This is true. Where I grew up the hills were so steep and long, when your ball rolled down the hill you just said "screw it"...


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