Kawi2strokes.com Forum

Enthusiasts from around the world dedicated to the preservation and ritual flogging of the infamous Kawasaki 2-stroke Triples
It is currently Sat Apr 27, 2024 2:30 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Crank run-out and index
PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2019 7:07 am 
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 06, 2015 6:01 am
Posts: 300
Location: Metamora, MI
Just wondering if anybody here had their cranks checked before or after a refurbish.

Also, just to wake youse guys up!


BTW how did you measure?


cliff


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2019 9:12 am 
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2011 6:37 am
Posts: 10460
Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico
Find a crank guy you can trust........ ;) What I did with Charlie Smith...... :thumbup:

_________________
Twist the throttle, tilt the horizon, and have a great time. What triples are all about...........


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2019 1:47 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 01, 2013 10:52 pm
Posts: 1224
Location: South Dakota
I've had Charlie build at least 10 triple crankshafts and he usually tells me the specs when he's done. And they all run like fine watches. :D

_________________
1969 H1, 1971 G3SSA, 1974 G5, 1973 H2A, 1975 S3A, 1975 H1F, 1973 Z1, 1988 HD FLTC, Captain America chopper, 2000 Excelsior Henderson, 1965 Bridgestone BS90


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2019 2:28 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2012 9:00 pm
Posts: 971
Location: Eagle Wisconsin
I dont know squat but I have been goofing around trying to measure run out on a single, and trying to learn how to measure accurately with different machinist tools its a skill I dont have down yet.
It must be somewhat difficult to measure run out on multiple member cranks.
I assume just the weight of the crank if the supports are not perfect or line it would through it off?
I also assume guys like Charlie have a dedicated well made jig set up to measure that supports each bearing point?
Or can the crank be held centered on the end and then measure the run out. And would you need to have a gauge on each to see how they run compared to the next when truing???
Anyway it fascinates me to see machinist types do there thing.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2019 8:10 am 
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 11:34 pm
Posts: 9840
Location: North Central NC
The crank rebuilding manual is on the resource site I believe.

_________________
If it surges, that's normal, upshift.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 11:42 am 
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 06, 2015 6:01 am
Posts: 300
Location: Metamora, MI
Thanks guys. I was wondering the method of measuring the crank run-out and index.

The manual states to clamp a main and measure the adjacent main bearing.
I do not see it explaining how this extends to the entire assembly.

Just questioning this procedure as to accuracy overall.

Anybody check cranks for run out and index for themselves?

cliff


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:26 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2016 4:32 am
Posts: 615
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Just place the crank with main bearings on it, on vee blocks, any two bearings, typically between the two end ones if a multi cylinder, and set up a dial indicator guage on any of the other bearings and turn it over. A single cylinder is often measured between centers, in a lathe if you have one, and the guage measuring close to the flywheels. Beware that the bearing clearances can add inaccuracies. I like to true a single crank up with no main bearings on then press them on afterwards, but you have to be careful to not do anything to disturb the crankpin assembly or you can then get it out of true.

_________________
1974 Kawasaki H2B 750, 1981 Yamaha XV750 Cafe, 1986 Kawasaki KDX200, 2003 Honda XR100, 2004 SDG140. 2006 Ninja 500R Turbo intercooled fuel injected.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 2:45 pm 

Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:25 am
Posts: 3146
I have been a certified crankshaft rebuild station since 1971, and over the years, have built fixtures to do the work, along with the metal plate and cylinder the factory first had.

All that said, to check alignment, I built a steel plate fixture with two slideable V blocks to support main bearings 2 and 5. The sliders allow for many different crank lengths, like S vs H series vs Yamaha, vs Suzuki, etc. I build the crank to each of the inner end flywheels, 2 and 5, and check and set the center rod pin to get the center alignment. I then add each end one at a time, still supporting my center aligned section, and set the ends as I install them, done. I support in the V's mains 2 and 5, then dial indicator mains 3 and 4 to align.

The one thing I never do is hit the crank with any sort of hammer, older versions of crank align "tech" used a lead hammer to whack the flywheels into alignment, but, now, I have more fixtures I built that hold the flywheel in my press, and press another flywheel into place to align.

I also built an indexing fixture to get the phasing dead on as I build the cranks. One of the first Yamaha racar cranks for a specific pressed together 4 cylinder race crank had 90 degree phasing, not 180 degrees, one of the very first "cross plane" builds. The tech on that was/is, a 90 degree 4 stroke V twin has great torque control, but, the cycling to get the engine back to the firing point is lengthy, with no firing in the off cycle. By building literally two V twins into one engine case, that fire TDC and 90, then 360 degrees later, so the same, gives a more manageable torque delivery, smoother operation and very much better performance. All this came about from other crankshaft phasing changes, like in the V4 two stroke race engines with changes from 180 degree firing, down to 90, 54 and 45 degree phasing.

All this is from someone that was there at the start of doing it, and one that is fanatic on building my own tools and fixtures for all sorts of things. Most people just don't have the ability, nor facilities to build those things, although they do have the mental ability to know there are ways to do it bad, good, better, and exceptionally, best. Those people need the people on this site that do offer their crankshaft building services, they get it done right.

Do I do crankshafts for others, well, not many, mostly for myself, and other racers that are still riding in local events. It isn't hard to get a crank dead straight, only have to have one that wasn't abused in a previous incorrect rebuild.

As John said above, find a crank person you like, and go forward with it.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 3:30 am 
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 06, 2015 6:01 am
Posts: 300
Location: Metamora, MI
Thanx Dave for the time spent explaining. This is what I built to measure cams/cranks.
Attachment:
crank ro 2.JPG


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 7:21 pm 

Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:25 am
Posts: 3146
Yup, tht is basically what I have, but, where you are supprtng the mains, you have two different rod pins to true, and that is a pain. Move the cranik over to support it by mains 2 and 5, check runout and true at mains 3 and 4 by adjusting the rod pin set on the center rod, true as needed. THEN, still supprting the crank at 2 and 5, true eacn end, 1 and 6.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group