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Swing Arm Pivot Shaft Lock Nut Torque
http://www.kawi2strokes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=13039		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  Hollister56 [ Sun Sep 03, 2017 2:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Swing Arm Pivot Shaft Lock Nut Torque
Looking at the H2 Service Manual is says, on page 56, 58-87 foot pounds.

Glenn's says, on page 151, 150 foot pounds.

Wonder which one is right?
Author:  DGA [ Sun Sep 03, 2017 3:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Swing Arm Pivot Shaft Lock Nut Torque
150 sounds way too high to me.
Author:  R.B. [ Sun Sep 03, 2017 4:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Swing Arm Pivot Shaft Lock Nut Torque
I've always gone for the 150lbs and backed it off until the swing arm moves, bear in mind it's trying to squeeze the frame and trap the bushes in the swing arm . . .
Author:  mraxl [ Sun Sep 03, 2017 4:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Swing Arm Pivot Shaft Lock Nut Torque
http://www.kawatriple.com/manuals/maint/section6.htm#sw install
Author:  R.B. [ Sun Sep 03, 2017 5:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Swing Arm Pivot Shaft Lock Nut Torque
mraxl wrote:
http://www.kawatriple.com/manuals/maint/section6.htm#sw install

.

Quote:
INSTALLING THE SWINGARM

When the bushings and sleeves have been installed in the swingarm pivot tube, liberally apply thick grease to the inside of the dust covers, then stick them on the ends of the swingarm pivot tube. NOTE: Before installing the swingarm in the frame on models with an endless chain, loop the chain over the swingarm pivot tube. Hold the swingarm in place between the frame lugs, and then push the pivot bolt into place. Install the self-locking nut with a flat washer and tighten it to 58 to 87 ft-lbs. of torque.

.
Where would this Flat Washer be then ? :think:
Author:  H2RTuner [ Sun Sep 03, 2017 8:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Swing Arm Pivot Shaft Lock Nut Torque
Point of information. The swing arm should pivot freely on the shaft spacers at full bolt torque, and the bolt should not have to be loosened to allow swing arm free drop. Free drop is the swing arm falling through its arc in the frame with nothing bolted/mounted to it. I have always set up swing arm side clearance to .015 when bolt is fully torqued to 87 ft/lbs, full free drop, no binding.

Looking at the website 'motogrid', at all H2 parts assemblies, there is NO flat washer shown on the swing arm pivot bolt, only the bolt head on one end, threaded on the other, and a hex nut. Unless there was a service bulletin, or FDM, I don't rely on others that have their idea as to how stuff is supposed to go together, I go to the parts diagrams, they have to have all the parts set on the pages the exact way they came, and fit up.

The way the pivot shaft parts assembly is shown there, all models, shaft (bolt with hex head), frame, cupped washer with O ring, center race for bushing, center spacer, center race for bushing, cupped washer with O ring, frame, nut.
Author:  R.B. [ Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Swing Arm Pivot Shaft Lock Nut Torque
H2RTuner wrote:
Point of information. The swing arm should pivot freely on the shaft spacers at full bolt torque, and the bolt should not have to be loosened to allow swing arm free drop. Free drop is the swing arm falling through its arc in the frame with nothing bolted/mounted to it. I have always set up swing arm side clearance to .015 when bolt is fully torqued to 87 ft/lbs, full free drop, no binding.

The way the pivot shaft parts assembly is shown there, all models, shaft (bolt with hex head), frame, cupped washer with O ring, center race for bushing, center spacer, center race for bushing, cupped washer with O ring, frame, nut.


Well, we agree on something, the build sequence you list is correct :thumbup:

I'll disagree on the way you build it, the swing arm bolt is fine thread for a reason, so you can use minimal tension to get JUST the correct tension on the swing arm . . . Tightening EVERY One to 87 pounds just won't cut it - they are ALL different spacings ! (if they weren't then there be absolutely no need for engine shims) - Frames from the factory are mm's out all over the place, the chances of every frame being the same distance from side to side is extremely slim! So, you over tighten the bolt to 150lbs to pull the frame in . . and then back it off . . . if you don't "over tighten" in the first place to "crimp" everything up, then it will only be a matter of miles until it all gets sloppy . . . and you'll complain that it doesn't "handle" . . . each to his own
Author:  mc356ce [ Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Swing Arm Pivot Shaft Lock Nut Torque
After restoring several H1, H2, and Z1, my technique has always been to tighten it, then verify the function of the swingarm. No sideplay, but able to pivot are what you need. Adjust bolt torque as needed, it is a locking nut that doesn't require a zilion ft/lbs of torque to stay tight. I have had some that were real tight frame to s/a, some were really loose, to the point I an going back to the parts diagram to see what is going on.
Author:  H2RTuner [ Mon Sep 04, 2017 11:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Swing Arm Pivot Shaft Lock Nut Torque
Yup, "each to his own", but, some just aren't the right way.

The procedure I outlined is a universal procedure, the way EVERY manufacturer sets their swing arms up. The center pieces in the "stack" inside the bushings, is a SOLID entity, sets the distance between inner frame bosses for the swing arm, and if that distance is not right, the frame binds the swing arm up.

Then, there is expansion in both the frame AND swing arm pivot areas, both NOT being the same expansion, from the heat of the engine and exhaust system being radiated onto both the frame in the pivot area, and the swing arm, and other factors, so, please, don't tell me I am stupid in setting swing arm sag up, I have done it the right way for 5 full decades now, with not one binding when at full temperature. Cold setting doesn't get it done, doesn't mean Jack Diddly.

There is NO reason to back the bolt stretch (oh, yeah, you know it as nut torque) off, as that would compromise the strength of the stack to hold the frame at the correct width distance for free swing arm function. "Backing the nut off" just ain't the right way to attain correct swing arm sag, nor fit.

Also, the swing arm distance clearance is NOT set with the nut torque, it is set between both cupped washers, between the stack, and bushing lengths, with the center spacer and both bushing inner races, as opposed to the distance of the swing arm bushing end thrust faces.

EDIT: One procedure I omitted in the swing arm papers was that the "stack" needs to be set and checked, in the frame, WITHOUT the two O rings placed in the cup washers. Set the end play up with the swing arm off the bike, pivot shaft in place, then, remove the pivot shaft, install the swing arm, pivot bolt, nut, torque, and check for free swing arm sag. when confirmed, and no further shimming is needed on the STACK, remove the swing arm, install both O rings with a good grade of waterproof boat trailer grease, and put the whole mess back in, torque the nut, done.

Doing it any other way is NOT the way Kawasaki, and other manufacturers intended for how to do it right. Please remember, the manuals were written in Japan, in early motorcycle pidgeon English, NOT today's real world English language.
Author:  R.B. [ Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Swing Arm Pivot Shaft Lock Nut Torque
H2RTuner wrote:
Yup, "each to his own", but, some just aren't the right way.
The center pieces in the "stack" inside the bushings, is a SOLID entity, sets the distance between inner frame bosses for the swing arm, and if that distance is not right, the frame binds the swing arm up.

.
OR . . . It's sloppy! :roll: Agreed, the bushes Etc are a known, engineered, distance. The frame is NOT . . . if it were then why would we need different sized spacers for fitting the motor? The build and welds on H2 frames was "sloppy" at best! So, I disagree that the space, side to side on the swing arm pivot is uniform . . . Hence, "trapping" the spacers in the swing arm requires different torques . . it may only be a mm or so but each set up is different . . . .
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